Editorial: Take Your Clothes Off, If You’d Like

In mid-September I started an email dialogue with Castro’s District 8 Supervisor Scott Wiener when I found out he was going to be introducing legislation to ban nudity throughout the city of San Francisco. I was disappointed, to say the least, that of all the issues that plague our community and San Francisco at large, this was an issue Scott was willing to tackle.

Supervisor Scott Wiener at the opening of Jane Warner Plaza in 2009. Photo by Flickr user Jamison Wieser

In the exchange he noted that the nudists have taken over Jane Warner Plaza saying,

“I don’t have an issue, in general, with public nudity.  Nor do most folks in the neighborhood.  What I and many others do have an issue with is any group that takes over and dominates the only usable public plaza in our neighborhood. Jane Warner Plaza is our town square, and these guys have turned it into their own personal nude beach. That’s not ok.  They’re their own worst enemies — their behavior has done nothing but built strong public sentiment in favor of a ban.  I’d very much prefer that they just stop dominating the plaza and avoid the need for a measure to address the situation.  To date, I’ve seen no indication of a willingness on their part to do so.”

Though I have only lived in the Castro for two years, I was not aware that nudists had taken over Jane Warner Plaza. I bike by their 10+ times a week and have only seen, on average, 0-3 guys there. I was curious and emailed him back asking him if he has tried to meet with the nudists to see if there was a way to deal with this situation without the need for legislation. I urged him, as a leader of our community, to work with people to come to a resolution rather than taking the easy route by proposing a law to ban nudity throughout the entire city. Supervisor Wiener emailed me back saying that he mediates neighborhood disputes all the time, but that he had not reached out to them as of the date of his email. He noted,

“I also go by there all the time, as I live in the neighborhood as well.  On any afternoon when it’s not cold, there are anywhere from 6-14, occasionally less.”

As I mentioned, I was not aware that there were so many nude people in Jane Warner Plaza. To verify Supervisor Wiener’s claim that on days that are not cold there were, in fact, 6-14 nude men in Jane Warner Plaza, I worked with one of our readers to go down there everyday for 10 days at the warmest part of the day and take photos of the Plaza to see how many nudists were down there. This is what we found:

From what our reader documented there were only 6 nude guys in the plaza for the entirety of the 10 days we went out there with no more than 1-2 at a time. It is evident that the nudists have not taken over Jane Warner Plaza as Supervisor Scott Wiener claims.

A San Francisco Chronicle writer and specifically the Bay Area Reporter have “come out” in support of Supervisor Wiener’s ban citing (without any notable references) that the nudists are shaking their dicks at oncoming traffic. While the BAR’s claim may be true, there are laws on the books to deal with this kind of lewd behavior and these laws should be enforced. I will also concede that there are probably a few cooks (not cocks) spoiling the broth by taking it from being nude in public to being an exhibitionist. Furthermore, the reason why you see more nudists walking around the Castro than any place else in San Francisco is that the Castro, with a history of queer culture and out of the norm lifestyles, is a safe space for them to hang out. Nudist Woody Miller can attest to that as he was harassed, threatened and nearly beat up for being nude in public. Mr. Miller reported that a grown adult man pulled up to him one day while he was walking nude and said that he would “beat his fucking ass” if he did not put pants on. Miller also said that the man,

“…got out [of his car] and opened the trunk, and pulled out a skateboard, all the while screaming about ‘Beating my fucking ass.’ I asked a man on the sidewalk to please call the police with his phone. He did so, at which point the guy jumped in his car and took off”

I think Supervisor Scott Wiener has done an excellent job of letting the media machine tell the story of the nudists and the people who are fed up with them, but has not acted as a leader of our community to meet with the nudists and the dissenters to mediate the issue. If this issue is really about Jane Warner Plaza or the Castro and not the rest of the City of San Francisco, creating a law banning nudity throughout the city is quite an over-reaction. There could be a myriad of other solutions that do not involve a carte blanche ban on nudity throughout the entire city. Why not just ban nude loitering in pedestrian plaza’s? Punishing all of San Francisco with this broad based law is not the answer. For this reason we here at the Castro Biscuit do not support a city wide ban on nudity.

Under Supervisor Wiener’s proposed law you can be arrested, fined up to $500, and spend up to a year in county jail for the following:

  • Going out for some fresh air outside the 440 while in your jockstrap on underwear night or outside the Powerhouse if the back patio is just too much for you.
  • Walking to the new Eagle from your car or MUNI in assless chaps.
  • and just plain being naked while in public

The Board of Supervisor’s City Operations and Neighborhood Services committee is expected to take up the rule change at its November 5 meeting. The hearing will begin at 10AM in Room 263 at City Hall. We encourage all folks who are opposed to the ban (and even those that aren’t) to attend the meeting and have their voices heard.

It’s a bad solution to an issue that has been blown out of proportion without real leadership behind it.

Keep the Castro weird, people.

Roy McKenzie

Roy has been a Castro resident since 2010 and is passionate about politics, camping, and food. Follow his babbling on Twitter.

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63 Responses

  1. I find it so interesting that Wiener seems to be so in-love with Jane Warner Plaza being the "town square" of the Castro. If that's the case, then maybe he can work on actually making it a place where people would enjoy sitting down to have lunch, drink coffee with friends, etc. Jane Warner Plaza is hardly a "town square" as Wiener likes to put it, Jane Warner Plaza is simply a turn around for Muni that has a few (gross) tables sitting around. Let's not even get started on the benches across the street above Muni.

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  2. Middleway says:

    Events like World Naked Bike Ride would be exempt. You're entitled to your opinion about the proposed legislation, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

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    • Roy says:

      Got it, updated the post. Cheers!

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      • Waiyde says:

        The position of street fairs, et al, being exempt seems very don't ask/don't tell legislative mentality to me. If it's not okay in one place than enforce it everywhere otherwise leave it as it stands. Separate but equal is never a good idea on any issue.

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        • Middleway says:

          It's not separate but equal at all. Many laws and ordinances have restrictions. For instance, bars can serve alcoholic drinks in San Francisco, but not after 2 a.m.

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    • Kevin_BGFH says:

      Actually, Supervisor Wiener specifically told me that he didn't know if WNBR would be exempt, because he wasn't sure if they get a permit. He told me that permitted events like the Bay to Breakers and Folsom Street Fair are exempt but WNBR might be more like Critical Mass where the police might (key word = "might") choose to ignore infractions of the law.

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      • Roy says:

        That's what I thought too, but I still took out the reference because I don't want to be accused of misleading folks.

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  3. Roy,

    We nudists DID reach out to Scott Wiener and try to come to a compromise. He rejected out of hand each and every one of our proposals. He then told us he would be willing to wait to see if we could resolve the issue in the Plaza ourselves, as he "didn't really want to introduce legislation."

    He waited exactly six days, with no more conversation.

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    • Middleway says:

      I'm curious as to what your compromise was, since it has not been reported on in the above-mentioned "media machine."

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  4. Troy Scott says:

    Adopting a republican strategy of just plainly lying I see…

    Under Supervisor Wiener’s proposed law you can be arrested, fined up to $500, and spend up to a year in county jail for the following:

    Going out for some fresh air outside the 440 while in your jockstrap on underwear night or outside the Powerhouse if the back patio is just too much for you.

    Walking to the new Eagle from your car or MUNI in assless chaps.

    People are taking advantage of their freedom and I hope the propisition passes no matter how loud a few scream. The rest of us want it.

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    • Roy says:

      If I am incorrect about any of my facts, please tell me and I will amend the post. My intention is not to lie.

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    • People taking advantage of their freedom? Please explain that concept too me. Either one has a freedom, or one does not.

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      • O_Please says:

        You attention wh0res are doing _precisely_ that. You are banking on the sentiment of 'keep the castro weird' to get your own thrills (or whatever. I don't even know what you get out of this exhibitionist crap) — and then paint anyone who calls you out on your bad behavior as an Oppressor. Spare me.

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  5. kim kibler says:

    Weiner has a history of taking up uncalled for legislation. He's trying to make a name for himself- and it's turning out to not be the name he would have liked. He also got involved in pushing dog walking legislation through that caps dog walkers earnings. No one asked him to take up this cause- a few people were complaining about crowded parks and he jumped in and made it a huge deal, with new laws. He will never get re-elected wasting time and tax payer dollars on meaningless laws. There are real issues to be worked on- these are frivolous side show stops he is making. Do your real job Scott Weiner, leave weiners and dogs out of it.

    Kim Kibler

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    • Joe says:

      As usual, a few bad dog walkers fucked it up for everyone. Sorry Kim, a dog walker with 12 dogs is not only destroying our parks, but not giving the dogs the attention they need. Yes, you need to transport dogs in a safe environment., yes you need a business license, yes you need to pay taxes, yes you need insurance, yes you need to pick up after the dogs under your care, yes you need to share the parks and yes I will vote to re-elect Scott Wiener.

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      • kim kibler says:

        we do pay taxes- and now we will be taxed 2x- and just because a few bad dog walkers fucked things up, you don't cap a whole industries income- one that is economically thriving, especially when his district has so many shuttered stores, he needs to work on the economy- not dismantle it.we all need jobs- he's taking them away. you get rid of the bad apples- it will save the city, and rec and park lots of $$.- they have no officers to patrol anything. they know that and have said it on record. weiner pushed it through without listening to city agencies. is this a good thing- no. it's like saying the nannys in town put too much wear and tear on the playgrounds- shouldn't they be regulated and taxed too? they are using public property. how about any private owner with a dog? should they be taxed 2x to take their dog to the park? we pay taxes, the owner pays taxes- so why penalize just one group for using public land, that we pay to use anyway? the other regulations are just fine. if you can't control your dogs- no matter the number, you should be the one penalized. you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. recall weiner.

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        • Tim Wayne says:

          "we do pay taxes- and now we will be taxed 2x- and just because a few bad dog walkers fucked things up, ….we all need jobs- he’s taking them away. "

          Actually, regulation often creates more jobs than it costs. In the case of this dog walking bill, where the number of dogs per walker is capped, it means more dog walkers have jobs, not fewer.

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  6. Joe says:

    the naked white entitled guys are disgusting. Great that you love your body, I just don't need to see your tired, fat asses, man tits, and flaccid cocks in public.

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  7. pch says:

    Whether the nudists like it or not, they have a PR problem — one that could easily be remedied by demonstrating to Castro residents that they really care about making the neighborhood a better place. For example, by picking up garbage. I realize it might be unfair to hold nudists to a higher standard, but gays have had to hold themselves to a higher standard every since the LGBT liberation movement began. And the homeless drug addicts who inhabit the purple benches don't give a s–t about cleaning things up (in fact they seem far more interested in creating messes)… but they're not after general acceptance. The nudists are. Calling your opponents Republicans, Nazis, and racists is not productive. Cleaning up garbage is.

    So, how about it? Don't you think it would be nice if, instead of saying "oh, there go those annoying ugly naked guys," Castro residents would say instead, "oh, there goes one of those nice guys who's cleaning up the neighborhood!"?

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    • Roy says:

      I agree, they do seem to have a PR problem. This would be an interesting solution to that. I wonder how well something like this could work. Thanks for this alternative idea!

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      • That was one of our suggestions to Wiener, PR, picking up trash, helping to improve the Plaza. He dismissed it outright.

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        • Michael says:

          I know the best way to solve the PR problem the nudies are facing. It is not the “normal” nudies that people are complaining about. It is the EXTREME ONES! The ones wearing wigs, fake facial hair, oiled up bodies, cock rings, ball stretchers, pumped balls, silicone balls, etc. The ones that dance, the ones that are touching themselves in public (I along with others have seen this, so don’t say it doesn’t happen). Police yourself. Do not allow this behavior to happen. And also, move around. The next biggest complaint is how you guys are at the Plaza all the time. Go to North Beach, the Marina, etc. Don’t just be nude in the Castro. You have the entire city to be nude. When you are only “nude” at the busiest intersection in the neighborhood, then you are perceived as exhibitionists.

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    • Joe says:

      wouldn't work. the naked guys are only interested in getting your attention. like 5 year old boys wanting Mommy to pay them attention.

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  8. pch says:

    Well, that's up to the nudists. Will they ever accept that a certain amount of responsibility comes with the extraordinary freedom they currently enjoy?

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    • Waiyde says:

      Great point. Part of the disdain within the Castro has grown from nudist citizens pushing the limits of the communities good will by adorning their genitalia with items. Another small minority within those participating have become sexually suggestive with either actions or erections. That will not do. Neither will using public tables and chairs without towels-as is required by an early law. How's that saying go again? 'With great freedom comes greater responsibility."

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      • Actions, erections, and towel usage are already covered (no pun intended) by existing legislation. If these are a problem, then the problem is enforcement, not new, more draconian legislation.

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        • Tim Wayne says:

          On a walk through the Castro yesterday, near Castro and Market I saw TWO naked dudes sitting on public benches, ass-cracks rubbing raw on the seat.

          "If these are a problem, then the problem is enforcement,"

          I think it would be easier (and way more tasteful) to ban the nudity altogether than to create a legion of towel-police for these ne'er do wells.

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  9. MPetrelis says:

    There ought to be a law requiring Wiener to hold at least two public town halls in the Castro before he introduces any legislation about the Castro. The fact that he fails to hold town halls shows he overly favors attending meetings of MUMC, where he is generally lauded, and really is not open to compromise or bringing different factions together in the same room.

    Frankly, since his last anti-nudity law was such a failure, expect the same when his second piece of anti nudity legislation passes at the BOS.

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  10. ms. dolores heights says:

    Why is everyone so uptight about the naked guys? We’re animals – primates, like apes. It is natural to be naked. Masturbation, defecation, urination and flatulence are natural. It is only from our rigid American religious institutions that we make these shameful. All over Europe, everyone walks around naked and no one feels shame. Germans carry little bags to carry their waste after they defecate on the streets and they are fastidiously clean in this regard. It is common and accepted in Sweden for people to pass gas in the streets and on public transportation. San Francisco has a long tradition as a place where people can do what they like. When I arrived in San Francisco in the 1970s there was a lot of belching and vomiting going on everywhere but at the end of the day no one had died because of it. This live-and-let-live attitude is what set San Francisco apart from the rest of this puritanical country. Now everything has changed because bad Scott Wiener the ultra-right wing guy has appeared amongst us threatening to take us back to the 12th century, making us undistinguishable from such places as Colorado or Wisconsin where everybody is religious and dull. It is my right to defecate in the street damn it. You don't have to look if you don't like it!

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  11. danial says:

    it's rather convenient for the purposes of your article that the photos posted/used here to validate your argument are so small, out of focus, and or improperly exposed (pun intended)..of course it's going to look a certain way…Seems like you've gone the fox news route of reporting..

    As a castro resident myself, I see them almost daily as I go about my day to/from work, errands, etc. And yes.. they are there almost daily standing/loafing around.. Are they directly harming anyone?.. no… not generally… but is that justification enough to say they should be allowed to continue? No..

    There are many behaviors we as a collective society have decided are not acceptable.. Not picking up after your dog…. Public Defecation.. Child Abuse.. Smoking.. Drinking and Driving.. Shoplifting.. We have taken steps, as a collective society, to try and curb these things because they are generally agreed upon as "bad".. even though some might not see them as such personally.. .. is society better as a whole for it? Yes..

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    • Waiyde says:

      We're sorry our pictures are poor quality, however, that doesn't change the facts of the article. They are accurate and we stand by our editorial. San Francisco, and especially the Castro has handled a lot more than a few naked people walking around our neighborhood. People's reactions to the nudity are varied. We understand if it's not your cup of tea. We're not asking anyone to join in. We're saying that people have bigger fish to fry than this little issue that's been blown out of proportion by citizens bent on being 'right' above all else. Appreciate your input and position and honor it despite the snark attempt to link us to borderline news psychotics, Faux News.

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      • danial says:

        Well of course you'd stand by your article, y'all wrote it. But calling what essentially boils down to mere opinions and observations facts?… that's really stretching it. Hence.. the fox news affiliation. You have the right to form and voice your own opinion…just as I do mine.

        Yes.. this city does have many more important issues, however, this IS an issue none the less and whether you are in favor of it, against it, or have no position on the matter whatsoever.. this IS something that a rather large number of business owners in the area and castro residents are rather tired of having to see. As Leonard Nimoy's Spock in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan said, "logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

        There is a very clear reason that nudist colonies exist around the world.. they openly embrace this lifestyle. Great for them for doing so. However, as open, progressive, and accepting of people that fly just a tad to the left of the "norm" as the castro is, is supposed to be, has been in the past.. The Castro isn't a nudist colony.

        You wouldn't go into the western addition, hunter's point, or bayview and have a hardcore "makeout" session with a person of the same sex on a street corner… why? because it's not a smart move.. is it legal? sure.. is it harming anyone?.. not really.. but the residents of those areas have made it clear it's not "smart" to do so.. that's why we stick to the castro.. Soma.. etc.. The nudists need a place to let their "freak flag" fly? Apparently there are places all around the city that openly embrace that…. the castro doesn't need to be one of them just because we're wanting to embrace other once taboo social norms..

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        • Waiyde says:

          First-yes. We have opinions. That's why we blog. We did go make observations. We made logical conclusions based on those observations which became the facts laid out in the article. We did not invent them for our amusement or to make a point. If on those days of observation we'd seen hordes of nudists engaging in lewd behavior our opinion would not be the one we formed and wrote about.

          Second-yes. We are aware some businesses and residents are unhappy with the nudity. Thus the Town Hall mtg approach to let everyone talk might've been a better direction to go rather than each small minority of people try to bully the other-and yes I'm talking about the hardcore 'For' and 'Against' nudity in the Castro.

          Third-no. The Castro isn't a nudist colony. I don't think the 2 nude people we observed on average, over the course of a 10 day period, make a 'colony' but I'm sure you can research the facts of that.

          Fourth-huh? Can't make out in Western Addition or Hunter's Point? Why? Cause African Americans live there and you presume they'll attack you for kissing? I have done both and never heard anything negative. "The residents there have made it clear it's not 'smart' to do so?" This sounds like your own baggage w/a dollop of racial tensions/fear but certainly not the facts.

          Finally-LOVE the 'Wrath of Kahn' pull quote. Made me swoon a little bit coz Sci Fi/Queer boys are HOT.

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    • All of those things you mentioned are harmful to others. Simple nudity is not harmful to anyone.

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  12. My issue is that I continually see guys who are "acting out" not "acting up." Sitting with you legs spread apart and dick aimed directly at the tourists as they get off the F-Line is just dickish behavior, having nothing to do with advancing our civil rights. If the majority of guys (and it's always guys) were just sitting around playing chess or chatting with each other it wouldn't be a big deal, instead it's really all about exhibitionism and messing with the tourists.

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  13. douglas M says:

    i really hope this ban on public nudity passes. I've been staying indoors more and I would like to get outside again but all the nude guys and their aggression has made me most uncomfortable. I also just voted for Mitt Romeny and I can't stand what he stands for, but I thought just maybe, and I know this may sound funny, a Romeny win might somehow lead to getting rid of the nude guys. This is an important issue to me and it's not about penises…. it just does not sit well with me when a group of people say to me: you don't want to get used to this, but you better used to this…. i mean, what is the next thing we are going to have to get used to…. it's a scary road to go down.

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    • you said what will we have to get used to next, it's a scatty road to go down. seems to me that the same thing was said when the slaves were freed and the issue was blacks walking on the same street as whites. again when the straights were concerned about seeing gay people in broad daylight. then again when drag queens were seen in the city. that argument just doesn't hold water. aren't you afraid to go outside for other reasons? and slippery slopes are found on snow covered hills.

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  14. Middleway says:

    I’m still waiting for Woody Miller to lay out what his compromises were to Scott Weiner. he has avoided my post. So what was it? Just picking up trash? Seriously? Lay out your compromise or take your empty Romneyesque statements back home.

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    • There is no need for name calling. We suggested financial supporting adjustments to the plaza by the nudists to; buy more chairs, set up a barrier with plantings. We suggested public outreach. We suggested opening other areas to social clothing optional use such as areas of certain parks. We suggested the creation of new space for clothing optional use. We suggested meeting with the community to discuss issues and to try to resolve them through self-policing. All were turned down.

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  15. Tim Wayne says:

    As long as there's no naked guy next to me on a crowded MUNI, I could not care less about the nudity in the city, especially in the Castro. I'm actually more bothered by the bad image quality and low resolution of the photos of Jane Warner Plaza on this blog post than I am about any naked people.

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  16. castro111 says:

    For all those who don't care about naked people in the castro, I'd like to share a few photos.

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    • Tim Wayne says:

      Where are the photos? This post is blank.

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    • Tim Wayne says:

      I ate lunch yesterday in the Castro. While sitting down outside, two of these guys walked past us with their junk at eye-level, flopping past our faces while we tried to continue eating.

      Later, as we walked down the street, as we neared Castro and Market I saw a couple of them sitting on public benches, with no "protective" towel to stop them from rubbing their raw junk—dicks, taints and bare asscracks—all over the public seating. Fuck those guys.

      I'm not in favor of wasting resources to legislate this nonsense. However, if the nudity ban passes, I'll be absolutely fine with it.

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  17. castro111 says:

    Never mind trying to change my gravitar, I just uploaded the photos to flickr.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/85116587@N00/8158699

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  18. Tim Wayne says:

    I ate lunch yesterday in the Castro. While sitting down outside, two of these guys walked past us with their junk at eye-level, flopping past our faces while we tried to continue eating.

    Later, as we walked down the street, as we neared Castro and Market I saw a couple of them sitting on public benches, with no “protective” towel to stop them from rubbing their raw junk—dicks, taints and bare asscracks—all over the public seating. Fuck those guys.

    I’m not in favor of wasting resources to legislate this nonsense. However, if the nudity ban passes, I’ll be absolutely fine with it.

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  19. Josh says:

    I wonder two things:

    1. How much of this was brought on by the newer influx of straight yuppie couples with strollers in the Castro?

    2. If it were naked supermodels, would people be having the same reaction, or would it be acceptable just because the people who were nude were considered to be good-looking?

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  20. i grew up in san francisco, ashbury hts. i would take the 33 ashbury bus or walk down vulcan steps to go hang out in the castro as a kid. no one was naked in those days. castro street sort of had a dress code of levis, plaid shirts and work boots (which went well with the mandatory moustache) but there was also every other kind of person in all manners of dress, gender specific and not. i live in nyc now and when i heard about san francisco allowing public nudity i thought, “how san francisco!” i miss san francisco for all its weirdness and weirdos and all the normal folks who don’t mind. i can’t imagine why someone would move there with conservative values, issues of shame, intolerence and actually want to mold the city into something other than a haven for otherness. its a 49 square mile penis-ula for god sake! sure its got amazing sour dough bread, micro climates, adventures like parallel parking on a 45 degree angle. cold foggy summers and balmy januarys. it also has vociferous gays. sepratist dykes. all american chinese kids. old ladies who still don hats and gloves to go out. leave the naked guys alone. there are over 3 million other square miles where you can live if you don’t like it. like i said i live in nyc. i like looking at peoples shoes. i can tell you right now it’s hard to get more than a quick glance of other pedestrians footwear and most people have two feet. if anyone says they see to much genitalia for their liking; don’t look. perhaps the flopping of weeners is hypnotic to some they can’t look away. and as for bare asses on park benches… a human pucker print pales with the amount of bird shit i remember encrusting most outdoor seating. i’m assuming the jane warner plaza is the mostly shadowed area in front of the castro muni entrance. really? the supervisor wants to hang out there? not perhaps the nearby delores or debose parks? but in front of the muni entrance. i remember harvey milk used to stand on the wooden cover before the muni was completed and rabble rouse but if that’s the naked guys prefered haunt and it’s a coveted locale for others all i can say is the supervisor should explore a bit more! he may like fifth and market as well! if only those damn winos weren’t hogging all the space. stay freaky san francisco. stay naked. stay fun. be the day glo pink drop in the sea of beige. it’s your duty for the goddess’ sake.

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    • Waiyde says:

      Thanks for weighing in and sharing your unique memories of growing up in SF.

      The plaza is a new invention. A ‘parklette’. Space developed from roadway or parking space and then decked out with planters, chairs and tables. This one happens to be across from the MUNI underground stop-renamed Harvey Milk Plaza where the F line (Castro-Fisherman’s Wharf/Antique historic street cars) ends and starts it’s long journey.

      Remember, as an Ex-Pat no matter where you, how long it’s been or what may happen in between you will always be a San Franciscan just waiting to come home and claim your bit of the 7 by 7 square mile pie. Thanks for representing in NYC.

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  21. thank you. so jane warner plaza is that triangle by the gas station where 17th street cuts across market and castro? oh well that would be an oasis of beauty! ruthlessly spoiled by untrimmed pubic bush. i’m still nonplussed by the fact that the supervisor for the castro isn’t one of the guys sunning his hairy crotch there. it’s like an alternate universe. i’m peeved too that i haven’t been back in so many years and i’m planning a trip there soon and was hoping not to have to pack any clothes. damn.

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